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 Piedpiper's theories 
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lost in subnet
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Theory of Societal interaction.
I will get right down to the point. We are the Sub-machine, or rather, the Sub-machine community and society as a whole: throughout the game, you are never referred to as someone, merely the explorer or something similar. This brings up the question that we are exploring it as ourselves, a very normal thing to do in games such as this. But what if that is only specific to you, for instance, friend A is the player, but then Player B is also the player, even though they played the same games. What i mean is that if friend A plays it and says, “yo, check this game out it’s great” and friend B goes and plays it, that in itself is how the sub-machine adds to itself. This can also be attributed to the fact that thought is a major element in the game, with the layer transporter being connected to your head, and murtaugh uses concentration to make karma portals, also along with einstein being the cat’s name able to phase in and out of the layers, and einstein being a brilliant person in general with lots of people knowing him for his contributions to physics. Next is the fact that you start playing an arcade game, which is discovered in Sub2, lighthouse. You also see an arcade of sub-machine in the room 731 in SubU. another possible entrance is in FLF, where (most likely you or Murtaugh) talks about finding the "root of all this" which might be another way to enter the subnet, through music. (future loop foundation is the band the game was made for and has music from in it)(i’ll be back to SubU and FLF in a sec) which would be a reference or clue to the fact that playing the game brings you into the sub-machine, because i looked up sub-machine and played it through jay is games, which is a great website for playing and walkthroughs of flash or online games, and i'm sure many others agree with me.
Another clue is in the whole of SubU, it is fact that you play as a different person in the SubU games than in the main game story, but is that for storyline? Or reality? Because once you play the game,(actually play them) and learn about it(through itself and the community of theories). You change, you learn more about the games, the plot, the story, the characters. You start to morph into a part of the sub-machine… the reason you find all the theories scattered throughout the SubU world. The reason the sub-machine arcade is ruined in room 731, because flash games are losing popularity and support on browsers, less people use it as a platform for knowledge, the rooms are the people, they are the sub-machine, the theories and communication through speech are what create and expand the subnet. Now, this brings up the question of murtaugh.
If the submachine is real life, then who are the characters found throughout the games, and what role do they play, especially if your friends or the internet represent the arcade game? Well, my theory is that elizabeth represents the truth of the game, a figurehead for what it really means, since she is close to murtaugh(who i will talk about next) and therefore knows the secrets of the submachine. Murtaugh would me Mateusz himself, i believe it is self evident, the name similarities, and how you found his real name later on, Whereas in the start, he labeled himself as just M. and since Mat created the games, it would make sense for it since murtaugh is the smartest person in terms of submachine knowledge, but piper? You ask, Mur only explored one third of the entire subnet. Yeah, and if you remember, theories are what drive this community, Mat will confirm theories based on his preferences or what he has already set in motion. Just as in the truth(Elizabeth) keeps trying to run from him. We as the players must be able to help find them both, through playing the games. Continuing the subject of theories driving this, what if you play as Mur in SubU, while still having the sense of being a part of this society, there are so many theories posted around the SubU world. This could represent Mat going through these theories and see which one fits with what he knows or has found so far. We create the sub-machine, mur has only found one third, and so we must complete it. He must discover the rest. This brings me to the “edge jumpers” hey leave the notes that talk about how you must leave this place. And is it a warning, or a suicide note of those who have left the community because they see it as a game, they feel that it isn't worth getting so involved because it was fun while it lasted, they are afraid that we will get sucked into this “core” if you will, of the sub-machine society. The center of a trap, something you can't get out of. They jump into the loop. What can be considered the area surrounding the core/edge. This dark abyss, and when you finally get somewhere, it is the loop, and endless torment of normal life, the changes may be slight, but we are offered a reprieve and an escape my Mat/Mur, A way to enter this society and culture of theory and gaming, becoming part of the submachine. Einstein in this theory has a weird role, how would a cat based off of the famous scientist and uses the scientist’s black hole theories to travel between the layers.
But some more on the subject of einstein, what does he represent? He represents the messengers, those who traverse society to spread the word of the submachine between the truth and us. Or more specifically, lets us know when we are close to the truth, as we only see him when liz and mur are together at the end. And then on to the exploration teams. I believe the exploration teams are those who started the submachine theories and lore, mainly those who started it but drew out of it after a time. Led by Mur/Mat, who tried to get people to discover the truth and become part of this amazing community, but ended up like the “jumpers”. So, about SHIVA, here is a theory posted by a group from the discord server conjoined with my theories.
SHIVA, in the submachine games, is the supercomputer that assists the evolution of the subnet. It can be compared to our own computers, using each word in the acronym: (See S.H.I.V.A’s Theory: The Acronym).
S: The word “Subnet” would mean that for us, the player, to even access the subnet, we would need to use our computers. We alone cannot interpret the subnet, which is why we need our computers to help the process.
H: The word “Hyper-Intelligent” would literally state that our computers have surpassed human intelligence. Although they cannot necessarily answer the question “Why are we?”, it is stated that computers have won games of chess against champions of the “sport”.
V:The word “Virtual” means that the nature of our computers is virtuality. However, just because we need virtuality to explore the subnet doesn’t mean it isnt physically existent.
A:The word “Assistant” tells us that our computers can only do so much is the evolution of the subnet. In the end, it is up to us, the player, to decide whether to enter the subnet, which brings me to the next portion of this theory: Creation and Adoption, the two ways that the subnet evolves. When the subnet creates it’s own location, the design is usually bland. However, when the subnet evolves via creation in reality, it is usually because a real person sees the concept and immediately has an interest in it. The process of adoption is more lengthy, and there are multiple social media devices that can fall under the process of adoption: Youtube, Google, Discord, Reddit, Wiki, etc. If the person is persuaded to play the Submachine games from listening to discussions on discord, videos on youtube, or just reading theories such as this one on the wiki, he is therefore an adopted member of the subnet.
The theory is that the loop is the outer layer of the core, which we can assume SHIVA cannot access directly because i had to send a bot to retrieve you from the cube in The Edge. so, shiva can't access the loop directly, but it can prevent them from getting into it. Representative of how the internet in all its glory keeps people inside the community, discord chat announcements, forums that keep you thinking, and youtube.
A theory about shiva involves the light layer and the existence of the 8th layer that eludes players and theorizers. The loop is actually the outer “dark” Layer of the subnet, and although it is able to be seen on the first seven layers(like in teh plan, where only 7 layers were attainable.this would explain the darkness, and now what does that mean for SHIVA? The glowing white line transported you across this black expanse, and what similarities does that line have with the portal that brings you to the light layer in Sub9? Exactly… and the light orbs that can bring you right through solid objects, while in the light layer, the light orbs can be used to transport a person using light. And now that would mean since the white line is the same in all three, then the transport box in sub 5 and 6 was transported through the light layer which is why the dark expanse could be considered the loop(which by the way is the next part of this theory that will stand alone, will be posted later) but then how can you only transport using light in the light layer but also in sub 5 and 6? Well my good reader...wisdom gems… the things you find in almost every game. What do they have to do, easy, they power the light layer, or rather, transportation and modifying in the light layer. You know how you need three wisdom gems to transport yourself to the edge, and how you use the same three to get into the light layer, and how the two games they don't show up in when they should be are sub 6 and 10, the Edge and The Exit. sub 10 because you are already in the light layer, and sub 6 for the following reasons. Because the light layer represents thought, how we create our own theories, without the help of the internet or other online sources other than the games. SHIVA cannot access the light layer directly because the internet may be able to help thought and create thought, but it will never be as strong as our human minds are.we are unique because we create our own realities, our own theories. And sub 6, is literally the edge, whether or not we choose to live in the submachine, or die to the pierce of real life, we must choose to continue to the wisdom gems, and choose the life of the subnet. thank you...
Thank you so much to the submachine discord chat to helping me make this theory. if there is anything that seems weak or if there are holes, please let me know. major thanks to Sundex, and Yombai who helped create this theory and form it into what is was.


Last edited by Piedpiper2017 on 07 Oct 2017 16:09, edited 3 times in total.



27 Sep 2017 17:19
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Do you want me to put this on the Wiki?

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28 Sep 2017 15:22
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lost in subnet
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nah, i have a little bit more to add, ill let you know on here when it is


28 Sep 2017 19:42
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Ok

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28 Sep 2017 19:59
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holy crap that is reaaally long


29 Sep 2017 02:38
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Piedpiper2017 wrote:
Theory of Societal interaction.
However, just because we need virtuality to explore the subnet doesn’t mean it is physically existent.

the is in this sentence should be isn't. It is crucial so you should change it

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29 Sep 2017 03:02
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Piedpiper2017 wrote:
Theory of Societal interaction.
I will get right down to the point. We are the Sub-machine, or rather, the Sub-machine community and society as a whole


Isn't that a bit...obvious? :D That we're the Submachine community? Or am I missing something?

Piedpiper2017 wrote:
But what if that is only specific to you, for instance, friend A is the player, but then Player B is also the player, even though they played the same games.


Yeah, that's typically how most games go about it...not sure exactly what I'm supposed to be getting here.

Piedpiper2017 wrote:
What i mean is that if friend A plays it and says, “yo, check this game out it’s great” and friend B goes and plays it, that in itself is how the sub-machine adds to itself.


...how exactly? How does having multiple people play a game add to the game itself in any special circumstance?


Piedpiper2017 wrote:
This can also be attributed to the fact that thought is a major element in the game, with the layer transporter being connected to your head [ ... ] lots of people knowing him for his contributions to physics.


I don't see the connection between this and the previous statements at all. How did we get from "multiple people play this game and that's special for [ undefined ] reason to "thought plays into this"? I have a small idea of what your'e trying to argue but I won't go into details unless you provide them.

Piedpiper2017 wrote:
Next is the fact that you start playing an arcade game, which is discovered in Sub2, lighthouse.


Disproven; we were not playing the arcade game.

Piedpiper2017 wrote:
You also see an arcade of sub-machine in the room 731 in SubU. another possible entrance is in FLF, where (most likely you or Murtaugh) talks about finding the "root of all this" which might be another way to enter the subnet, through music.


As above, this is disproven, and the part about FLF --> Root isn't backed up at all.

Piedpiper2017 wrote:
(future loop foundation is the band the game was made for and has music from in it) [ ... ] and i'm sure many others agree with me.


This is probably not something that needs to be included in the theory as your audience more than likely is familiar with this part.

Piedpiper2017 wrote:
Another clue is in the whole of SubU, it is fact that you play as a different person in the SubU games than in the main game story,


As far as I know, it was never said that the player in the SubVerse is different from the main storyline; just that they were never confirmed to be the same. There's a difference.

Piedpiper2017 wrote:
Because once you play the game,(actually play them) and learn about it(through itself and the community of theories). You change, you learn more about the games, the plot, the story, the characters. You start to morph into a part of the sub-machine…the reason you find all the theories scattered throughout the SubU world.


The natural process of learning how a game works doesn't make you part of the game 99.5% of the time, and though SubVerse borders on this it doesn't really fall into this category either. In creased knowledge about a game doesn't put you into the code. There was also a recent quote by Mat where he said that the SubVerse specifically is more like canon lore mixed with fan lore, so in other words any member's presence in the subnet locations should be taken with a grain of salt and no more.

Piedpiper2017 wrote:
The reason the sub-machine arcade is ruined in room 731, because flash games are losing popularity and support on browsers, less people use it as a platform for knowledge,


I'm viewing this as a wild guess at a metaphor that probably isn't there.

Piedpiper2017 wrote:
the rooms are the people, they are the sub-machine, the theories and communication through speech are what create and expand the subnet.


No, pretty sure the locations are locations, as locations are added that don't have any bearing to community members. Again, the addition of theories is a nice element, but there's no reason to serve as the backbone the entire Subnet is built upon.

Piedpiper2017 wrote:
If the submachine is real life, then who are the characters found throughout the games, and what role do they play, especially if your friends or the internet represent the arcade game?


As discussed above, we don't "represent" an arcade game. And there's no reason to assume that any characters in the series or any part of the game environment itself is a big stand-in metaphor.

Piedpiper2017 wrote:
Well, my theory is that elizabeth represents the truth of the game, a figurehead for what it really means, since she is close to murtaugh(who i will talk about next) and therefore knows the secrets of the submachine.


Some secrets, yes, but probably not all, which destroys the metaphor of her being an all-bearer of truth. Unless you can somehow prove that she does indeed know completely everything (and this is assuming everything's a metaphor anyway, which you seem to be going for).

Piedpiper2017 wrote:
Murtaugh would me Mateusz himself, i believe it is self evident, the name similarities, and how you found his real name later on, Whereas in the start, he labeled himself as just M. and since Mat created the games, it would make sense for it since murtaugh is the smartest person in terms of submachine knowledge, but piper? You ask, Mur only explored one third of the entire subnet.


Your metaphor argument falls flat here. Mateusz as a game developer has many more answers than Murtaugh does, but Murtaugh is searching for those answers. The only reason that Mat chooses to use the "M"/"Murtaugh" persona from time to time is to imitate the mystery that was conveyed from Murtaugh to his explorers/anyone that stumbled upon the notes. But to say they're one and the same or representative of each other is false.

Piedpiper2017 wrote:
Yeah, and if you remember, theories are what drive this community, Mat will confirm theories based on his preferences or what he has already set in motion. Just as in the truth(Elizabeth) keeps trying to run from him. We as the players must be able to help find them both, through playing the games.


Liz was only really running from Murtaugh in one specific section of the series. The rest of the time she was maintaining contact with him and helping him out. And the player's actions do nothing to affect the Liz/Mur plot. We just see glimpses of the aftermath of what happened before. Whether or not we complete the games, those actions happen regardless. We have no obligation to "help" anyone.

Piedpiper2017 wrote:
what if you play as Mur in SubU, while still having the sense of being a part of this society [ ... ] and so we must complete it.


This isn't theorizing as much as it is wild guessing and entertaining notions without evidence.

Piedpiper2017 wrote:
“edge jumpers”


- only one confirmed so far, not plural -

Piedpiper2017 wrote:
And is it a warning, or a suicide note of those who have left the community because they see it as a game, they feel that it isn't worth getting so involved because it was fun while it lasted, they are afraid that we will get sucked into this “core” if you will, of the sub-machine society. The center of a trap, something you can't get out of. They jump into the loop. What can be considered the area surrounding the core/edge. This dark abyss, and when you finally get somewhere, it is the loop, and endless torment of normal life, the changes may be slight,


Besides conflating the Void with the Loop, as there's absolutely no evidence that you fall into any sort of Loop after jumping into the Void, so idk why you would ever say something like that for any other reason than "it sounds good/poetic", I think you're again inserting a metaphor here that simply isn't the case. And I'll explain why in a bit because I'm getting a better sense of where you're going with all this.

Piedpiper2017 wrote:
but we are offered a reprieve and an escape my Mat/Mur, A way to enter this society and culture of theory and gaming, becoming part of the submachine.


Same as before

Piedpiper2017 wrote:
But, what are the layers??? This got me thinking. How would the theoretical layers fit into a real world equivalent?


Who said they needed to?

This is the problem. You are trying to say that everything in the Subnet is simply a metaphor for the community, playing the Submachine games, which are a metaphor for the community playing the Submachine games, which are a metaphor for the community playing the Submachine games, etc. etc. etc.

The entire argument is circular with nowhere to start proving it, and that renders it pointless. While it might be cool to think about the idea that the Subnet series is just some sort of "thought-ception/it's a METAPHOR for ITSELF *hits blunt*", there's ultimately no point treating it as such because that leaves the game series itself with next to no substance and discredits everything Mat has worked towards for the past decade. The Subnet is its own story and isn't dependent on our efforts to understand it to the length you're describing.

Piedpiper2017 wrote:
The answer is in the Pastel Forums, and the Discord chat for the submachine community. Each has separate channels for communication, theories, artwork, overall communication. That would explain the layers


No it doesn't. Just because the forum is separated into separate sections and the layers ALSO happen to be separated into more than one layer, that does not mean they automatically cross-metaphor each other.

With that logic you could say that the community is like a location because a location is divided into rooms, or the Subnet is like the Holocaust because the Nazis shipped people off to different communities within camps, just like there are sublayers within layers. And that's not an open invitation to start theorizing there :P

Piedpiper2017 wrote:
but it’s so easy to switch between each one, [ ... ] This is the weakest part of the theory, since it requires proof that someone waits a few minutes to soak things in the theories area before going and reading up on some lore, because most don’t.


I agree that this is the weakest part of the theory so far but obviously for entirely different reasons.

Piedpiper2017 wrote:
But some more on the subject of einstein, what does he represent?


A: Einstein the cat. Really it's clear at this point that you're not treating the Subnet as something to be theorized about as much as you are trying to find metaphors in it at every possible turn and setting the target back onto the Subnet itself.

Piedpiper2017 wrote:
So, about SHIVA, here is a theory posted by a group from the discord server conjoined with my theories.


I'm 95% certain that at some point Mat said that S.H.I.V.A. doesn't have a specific acronym he thought of, so any guesses cannot be proven nor disproven and therefore are not theory material.

Piedpiper2017 wrote:
The theory is that the loop is the outer layer of the core,


I'm completely lost. Are we starting another theory now? Your train of thought is almost impossible to follow for me.

From this point out I'm not going to try to tackle the rest, as I can't tell how disjointed it is from what you've said before. At this point just taking into the formatting of the "theory" and its pacing, myself and others lost interest as readers at this point. Besides what I've said before already, you really have to make sure that you stay focused and constantly look at what you wrote to make sure you can follow it again and that others who can't see into your head can follow it as well. Even you said yourself you didn't realize how long it was, which showed that you didn't do proofreading or anything. Proper theories should not be written in one shot. The words are not cemented in stone.

Also in general:

- break up your paragraphs with physical space so the giant wall of text isn't an automatic turn off for people who are reading theories. That's a big part of the reason why I didn't look at this until now.

- stay on task and make your argument clear. Even though you said you would get right down to the point I didn't latch on to what you were doing until about halfway through.

- "the game is a giant metaphor" is typically a weak base to start theorizing from, especially in this case where you're basically saying it's a metaphor for itself, or at least the community surrounding it. It begs people to have an increased sensitivity to seeing connections between things that aren't actually there and probably were never meant to be.

- don't make points based on assumptions unless they're assumptions that are generally accepted. So in other words don't point to your own theory to explain something in your theory.

- stuff like at the end:

Piedpiper2017 wrote:
whether or not we choose to live in the submachine, or die to the pierce of real life, we must choose to continue to the wisdom gems, and choose the life of the subnet. thank you...


where you make your conclusion a bunch of grandiose phrases like this comes off as very showy and sort of cringy. Remember theories are meant for hard facts and conclusions, not for telling people how to live their life in some sort of semi-religious/philosophical tone.

I understand that since this is your first attempt at theorizing it won't be perfect (mine sure wasn't) but hopefully you'll take the advice I offered and consider it for future theorizing you do.

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04 Oct 2017 04:57
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Karma, the energy flowing through the subnet. It is what Mur used to create Karma portals, it is what the “natives” of the subnet revered as godly powers, and what you use as the player to traverse and power the subnet. So, what is Karma? We know that Karma was discovered first by the “natives” (seen in sub8) and later we see the use of Karma in a human being through Murtaugh, who used it in the form of his “third arm” to create Karma portals. And that Karma can come in 3 seen varieties/properties. Karmic water, Wisdom gems(the gems acting as vessels for karma), and Karmic energy(Karma stabilizer, Karma portals, arch portals, etc), as seen throughout the whole of sub 10 with the many machines found in coordinate IIO, the karma studies facility. And the karma stabilizer. It is also seen in its raw form at the beginning of Submachine 7 “The Core”, and at the end of Sub9 as you transfer to the light layer. Now, Karmic energy can also be seen as Karma portals, but in Sub9, it is created using a green form of karmic water. This brings up the question i asked myself. Is Karma malleable? or does it act as any normal substance would with given conditions; gas, liquid, solid? My verdict is that Karma acts, in its own respect, as a normal substance on earth would, having 3 distinct forms/properties, each created during different conditions. The three properties I will call Karmic water, Karmic Fire, and Raw Karma.

Karmic water: The “liquid state” of Karma, although Karmic Water can also be used to create “Solid” materials such as bridges and cogs for puzzles. Karmic Water is first seen and used mainly in Sub9, where you see it flowing from a fountain, indefinitely.
Attribute1: Karmic water is not just a liquid, but, as supported through hindu beliefs, is a building block, or a pure source. This, in the form of karma, is the Orderly form, created with karma becoming concentrated and in a sense, purified.
Attribute2: Karmic Water has the ability to transport through layers/time, as seen in the plan, where the beams of green energy act as beacons to other layers. it is seen in sub9, Where you use it multiple times to build something that spans multiple layers.
Creation: Karmic water is created through the energizing of karma using layer transportation tech, this would be how the beacons in Sub8 are green in almost the same fashion as karmic water, it would also be how karmic water can be the same through multiple layers.

Karmic Fire/energy: (Chaotic/volatile form) Karmic fire, seen as a form of karmic energy used to create karma portals. It is not what murtaughs hands are made of, but rather, the concentration of karma through all the layers, while power is focused on one layer, so murtaughs hand is showing the creation of karmic fire, kind of like a spark.(thus the disruption caused).
Attribute: I call this Karmic Fire as it is what tears the subnet apart. Karmic fire is a chaotic form of Karma that has the ability to transport between locations, space, whereas Karmic water transports through layers.
Creation: Karmic fire is created through the disruption, or concentration of karma through layers so as to energize and manipulate the base karma of all layers to a singular layer.

Karma: (stable/neutral form) raw karma, used in sub 10 in the karma test rooms(IIO). This form of karma is what gave Murtaugh his arms(although his arms themselves are technically KF).
Attribute1: Karma takes that which is not of the subnet, and makes it so. As seen in sub10 location IIO, it takes broken materials and fixes them, most likely reinforcing the significance of SHIVA being the subnet’s caretaker. Although the correlation between Karma and SHIVA are still unknown. Base Karma is also what is found inside the Karma stabilizer as this “neutral” form of Karma is what keeps the subnet together. (again, as seen in IIO)
Attribute2: this form allows for travel through time. As we see in the end of sub9, where we are transported via white karma portal to a time where Mur and Liz are still alive, and also earlier where we are able to talk with Mur in the edge, but later we see his tomb.
Creation:although we are not completely sure about the creation of karma in it's natural form, we can assume tat karma is a part of the subnet as it goes back to the time of the natives.

note: All properties have the ability of space travel, although some are restricted in a few ways. Such as karma portals of base karma(door portals, lighthouse maybe, and submachine 9 ending(supposedly)) base karma is the only time related karma portal/karma property. And karmic water can only be seen and interacted with on every layer. Karmic fire may be the concentration of every layer but can only teleport through space.


21 Dec 2017 02:46
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Request to condense Pied Piper's 2 theories into 1 thread specifically for him.

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21 Dec 2017 14:12
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Yeah sure


21 Dec 2017 15:27
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