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 Sundex's Theories 
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ENIHCAMBUS wrote:
Nothing to say sorry, what you did was a right thing to do!

My response was to Apocrypha, who for a moment forgot that I am a Mod too! :<

1) I was talking about the theory itself, but thanks for that at least.
2) XD. Vortex has a reputation of being a karma portal, sooooooooo he is probably going to be more thought of than you IMO. Sorry. It's just how it is.

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06 Nov 2017 02:50
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Sundex wrote:
ENIHCAMBUS wrote:
Nothing to say sorry, what you did was a right thing to do!

My response was to Apocrypha, who for a moment forgot that I am a Mod too! :<

1) I was talking about the theory itself, but thanks for that at least.
2) XD. Vortex has a reputation of being a karma portal, sooooooooo he is probably going to be more thought of than you IMO. Sorry. It's just how it is.


But Apocrypha's response had nothing to do with your theory, he was asking why he got notificacions when there wasn't new posts, since you deleted a few of them.

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06 Nov 2017 02:54
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I know. And I apologize to both of you for the confusion.

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06 Nov 2017 02:56
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ENIHCAMBUS wrote:
My response was to Apocrypha, who for a moment forgot that I am a Mod too! :<


Well in all honesty, yes, because I've been hanging out more with Vortex in stuff like the Skype chats and I just seem to recall him being present more. So naturally my mind gravitated toward asking him first.

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06 Nov 2017 13:06
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I can get that, but remember, I'm always here in the forum! :P

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06 Nov 2017 21:03
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Sundex wrote:
Introduction:


skip

Sundex wrote:
These are speculated to be on different layers. For this to be dubbed true, blue karma portals would need to be able to let people layer shift. Therefore, blue karma portals are capable of layer changing.


No, this is not how a proof works. You're saying that the two basements might be on different layers. The second part might be true out of necessity, but you're basically forcing a conclusion that can't be drawn. You're saying it's true to force the conclusion that the basements are two different layers of each other.

Sundex wrote:
Stability

This paragraph is mostly just a detailed summary; you're not making any explicit statements that can't be directly observed.


Sundex wrote:
“Death”:


Same deal here.

Sundex wrote:
Green Karma Portals [...] It has been speculated that these karma portal are capable of letting players shift layers. Personally, this is correct


...what? Did you mean to say "personally I think this is correct"?

Sundex wrote:
but hasn’t been confirmed as there isn’t concrete evidence for it. However, there is some evidence that goes for this:


These two phrases contradict each other.

Sundex wrote:
the big green karma portal in Submachine 7. This was meant to take us to the knot and shift us over to layer 5 for Submachine 9


Was it?

Sundex wrote:
Stability:

These were thought to be more stable than blue karma portals.


By who?

Sundex wrote:
[...] This means that, unless contained via brass, green portals are generally unstable.


I don't think you can really draw this conclusion or the opposite, because we've seen only two examples of green KPs outside of a stand. It's sort of rocky even as a general statement.

Sundex wrote:
“Death”

Green karma portals can’t die. When they are contained, this is obviously true.


Do you have proof of this? How do you know that portals can't die of they are in a stand?

Sundex wrote:
However, even when they are not contained, there have been no signs of dead karma portals that were originally green. Therefore, green karma portals cannot die.


This is another hasty generalization.

So I won't bother with the summary for the first part. I would also recommend if you want this treated as two theories, write them as two theories maybe over two posts.

Sundex wrote:
Part 2 (The Properties of Wisdom Gems): Rough Draft

[...]

During the invasion, the contributors continued their research on karma. At the sight of their research, we find an wisdom/energy gem locked in a box. The fact that they were using this gem for their research means that wisdom gems are made from karmic energy.


...am I missing something here? How do you know that they were continuing research on karma during the invasion? And how do you know the gem was involved?

Sundex wrote:
Wisdom Gem Properties:

Color:

[...]There is one main color of wisdom gems that is seen within the Subnet: blue. Therefore, it is better to describe wisdom gems have or don’t have color.


I think any discrepancies between the appearances of wisdom gems in the main series is just a results of changing artistic touches by Mat, and not really anything more subtle.

Self-sustaining properties:

Sundex wrote:
Similarly to the Subnet’s karmic veins that self-sustain the generator described in a not in Submachine 10


Where were the veins described as "self-sustaining"? Unless you're talking about generator, but then that means the generator isn't "self-sustaining" if it needs the veins in the first place. Where is this term coming from?

Sundex wrote:
They can replenish a set amount of energy in a certain amount of time.


Is there actually any proof anywhere that the gems are being "depleted" and then "replenishhing themselves"? Besides

Sundex wrote:
and by the time we revisit the mover in Submachine 9, the three wisdom gems have a heightened sense of opacity and radiancy.


which I chalked up to an artistic change? (For proof that Mat does do this, I asked him during a livestream if there was any difference between the design of the karma portal between Sub7 and Sub10, and he answered that it was just cosmetic).

Sundex wrote:
Transparency:


Sundex wrote:
Radiance:


Sorry.

Sundex wrote:
A wisdom gem can either levitate or be affected by gravity. When a wisdom gem levitates, it shows that it was recently manifested by the Subnet. When it is affected by gravity, it shows that its age is moreso compared to a recently created one. Many wisdom gems within the Subnet are “old”, such as the citric acid wisdom gem and the ancient section wisdom gem from Submachine 5, and the invasion wisdom gem from Submachine 7. The only wisdom gem that is seen being “premature” is the first one we see within the main series at Submachine 1.


Where is your proof that there's an inverse relationship between age and levitation? You just tied the two together without proof and I also have no idea how you're going around attaching "ages" to certain gems.

--

No need for me to look at the last two summary paragraphs.

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08 Nov 2017 03:23
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Apocrypha wrote:
Sundex wrote:
These are speculated to be on different layers. For this to be dubbed true, blue karma portals would need to be able to let people layer shift. Therefore, blue karma portals are capable of layer changing.

No, this is not how a proof works. You're saying that the two basements might be on different layers. The second part might be true out of necessity, but you're basically forcing a conclusion that can't be drawn. You're saying it's true to force the conclusion that the basements are two different layers of each other.

Just changed this paragraph in the document. It now talks about the letter to Elizabeth in Submachine 10.

Apocrypha wrote:
Sundex wrote:
Stability

This paragraph is mostly just a detailed summary; you're not making any explicit statements that can't be directly observed.

There is a reason for this: I stated that certain properties need to be examined to come to a conclusion on how to differentiate blue and green (with color being disregarded). This is one of those properties, and summary or not, it still has relevance.

Apocrypha wrote:
Sundex wrote:
“Death”:

Same deal here.

Same deal here.

Apocrypha wrote:
Sundex wrote:
Green Karma Portals [...] It has been speculated that these karma portal are capable of letting players shift layers. Personally, this is correct

...what? Did you mean to say "personally I think this is correct"?

Yeah. I just try not to use "I" or "You" to increase formality. Either way, this isn't really personal, but a general thought from the entire community. It will be fixed.

Apocrypha wrote:
Sundex wrote:
but hasn’t been confirmed as there isn’t concrete evidence for it. However, there is some evidence that goes for this:

These two phrases contradict each other.

Concrete meaning "cold-hard". Maybe I should add the word "indirect" into the latter half. If this doesn't work, I'll remove the first portion entirely

Apocrypha wrote:
Sundex wrote:
the big green karma portal in Submachine 7. This was meant to take us to the knot and shift us over to layer 5 for Submachine 9

Was it?

Yes. At least for the knot. Evidence for the layer shifts coming shortly. If it can't be found, this example might be removed.

Apocrypha wrote:
Sundex wrote:
Stability:
These were thought to be more stable than blue karma portals.

By who?
Sundex wrote:
[...] This means that, unless contained via brass, green portals are generally unstable.

I don't think you can really draw this conclusion or the opposite, because we've seen only two examples of green KPs outside of a stand. It's sort of rocky even as a general statement.

There is a lack of green karma portals, giving us limited to speculate on. This, I can agree with. But just because there are limited examples doesn't mean we negate speculations entirely.

Apocrypha wrote:
Sundex wrote:
“Death”
Green karma portals can’t die. When they are contained, this is obviously true.

Do you have proof of this? How do you know that portals can't die of they are in a stand?
Sundex wrote:
However, even when they are not contained, there have been no signs of dead karma portals that were originally green. Therefore, green karma portals cannot die.

This is another hasty generalization.

All of this will be redesigned to create a better portion.

Apocrypha wrote:
So I won't bother with the summary for the first part. I would also recommend if you want this treated as two theories, write them as two theories maybe over two posts.

This will be noted in the creation of the final.

Apocrypha wrote:
Sundex wrote:
During the invasion, the contributors continued their research on karma. At the sight of their research, we find an wisdom/energy gem locked in a box. The fact that they were using this gem for their research means that wisdom gems are made from karmic energy.

...am I missing something here? How do you know that they were continuing research on karma during the invasion? And how do you know the gem was involved?

I took note of the aesthetic of Submachine 7, along with the wiki: http://submachine.wikia.com/wiki/Sanctuary#History

Apocrypha wrote:
Sundex wrote:
Color:
[...]There is one main color of wisdom gems that is seen within the Subnet: blue. Therefore, it is better to describe wisdom gems have or don’t have color.

I think any discrepancies between the appearances of wisdom gems in the main series is just a results of changing artistic touches by Mat, and not really anything more subtle.

Maybe this will be removed in the final. Maybe it won't. It all depends on how I can word this better.

Apocrypha wrote:
Self-sustaining properties:
Sundex wrote:
Similarly to the Subnet’s karmic veins that self-sustain the generator described in a not in Submachine 10

Where were the veins described as "self-sustaining"? Unless you're talking about generator, but then that means the generator isn't "self-sustaining" if it needs the veins in the first place. Where is this term coming from?

I see what you mean. Must have been in a totally different mindset during this time. I'll just get straight to the point and disregard this in the final.

Apocrypha wrote:
Sundex wrote:
They can replenish a set amount of energy in a certain amount of time.

Is there actually any proof anywhere that the gems are being "depleted" and then "replenishhing themselves"? Besides
Sundex wrote:
and by the time we revisit the mover in Submachine 9, the three wisdom gems have a heightened sense of opacity and radiancy.

which I chalked up to an artistic change? (For proof that Mat does do this, I asked him during a livestream if there was any difference between the design of the karma portal between Sub7 and Sub10, and he answered that it was just cosmetic).

For first portion, more examples are given within Transparency and Opacity. For second portion, see below.

Apocrypha wrote:
Sundex wrote:
Transparency:

Sundex wrote:
Radiance:

Sorry.

These differences in looks, in reality are because of changes in Mat's artistic style. But in game There is an entirely different reason. What is talked about are those reasons

Apocrypha wrote:
Sundex wrote:
A wisdom gem can either levitate or be affected by gravity. When a wisdom gem levitates, it shows that it was recently manifested by the Subnet. When it is affected by gravity, it shows that its age is moreso compared to a recently created one. Many wisdom gems within the Subnet are “old”, such as the citric acid wisdom gem and the ancient section wisdom gem from Submachine 5, and the invasion wisdom gem from Submachine 7. The only wisdom gem that is seen being “premature” is the first one we see within the main series at Submachine 1.

Where is your proof that there's an inverse relationship between age and levitation? You just tied the two together without proof and I also have no idea how you're going around attaching "ages" to certain gems.

At this point, I feel like I have proved my claim of "Properties define mechanics". However, I thought adding this would be sort of useful. Seeing that this only causes lack of such, it will be removed.

Thanks for the feedback. I am thinking of adding a small afterword to each of these theories (this confirms that I will separate theories). Both of which will not be revealed until the release of the final, which will be the 13th of November.

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08 Nov 2017 14:02
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Just replayed Submachine 8 to try and figure out how each layer is significant (Because obviously each layer has more to it than meets the eye). My current findings had to do with the notes, which helped me find the significance of layers 1 and 2.

Layer 1: "Murtaugh is coming back. We should go. We should go now." -Murtaugh's Return.
This note depicts nothing but the return of Murtaugh. Where is Murtaugh returning? Why, he is going back to the core. This "return" was known as "The Invasion" in Subnet History. From this we can infer that the invasion took place in layer 1, meaning that in Submachine 7, we start in layer 1.

Layer 2: "I clearly remember the day it all ended. It was not long after the computer processing power exceeded that of the human brain. Many thought that this was the turning point, but not so. The moment came a bit later. I remember, because I was there, when we asked the biggest question. The one we've been struggling with for millennia. Why are we? But this time the question wasn't directed at us. We asked the computer. And that was the turning point in the history of humanity. That exact moment. Once we acknowledged that we're not the most evolved structure on our planet, once we passed the torch, our purpose diminished. Did we expect the computer to fry under the heaviest of questions? Of course. So you can imagine our surprise, when this happened. The computer answered the question." -The Answer. This refers back to the scientists in Submachine 4 (SPECIFICALLY the scientists). They thought there was a purpose to the Subnet; as to "why they are", so they searched to find it. They didn't find the answer, but rather S.H.I.V.A. When S.H.I.V.A told them their purpose, this was known as the 2nd enlightenment in Subnet History. Why this is important to the 2nd layer is mainly based off of the fact that this note is found in the 2nd layer. It states that the one-dimensional scientists were part of the 2nd layer which we can use to infer many things, such as S.H.I.V.A access point being in the 2nd layer and Submachine 4 taking place in layer 2. From this, we can figure out the significance of layer 2: it is the home-layer of S.H.I.V.A

Layers 3, 5, and 8 will be omitted in my next findings as we already know their significance. Layers 4, 6, and 7 are a WIP

(Although I am having some weird thought that layer 6 is the home-layer of WorldisQuiet5256 XD)

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12 Nov 2017 04:50
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Here is the picture (for those who are interested) (Forgot some Submachine Universe shading but it's fine I think)


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14 Nov 2017 01:08
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Okay guys, so I took time to check out where we find specific notes in Submachine 10 (the 14 that are on papers). Here are my findings.

Notes in OOO:
Letter to Elizabeth: In room to the left of broken “arcade cabinet”
Life’s Goal: Found in the Basement exit one room to the right of the elevator entrance
Usher and Disciple: In metal section in the room left of ladder
Brain and Body: Lighthouse ladder on the way up to the “portal”
Lighthouse Lamp: on the way up to the Light Crown in the Captain’s Ship

Notes in OOI:
Infinite Number: Within the root in the room with slot for path-finder

Notes in OIO:
Twin Tombs: found in new lab portion

Notes in OII:
Every 32 Years: room with the small box in the Winter Palace
Lumiere: after stabilizing pathway to karma portal leading to energy coil.

Notes in IOO:
Escaping: found in storage unit 33/3

Notes in IOI:
Five dimensions: found in the room left of the bull statue
Light Crown: Found at rightmost lion at the docks.

Notes in IIO:
Vertical Loop: Next to microscope
Letter to Murtaugh: Found by the leftmost door of a three-door section.

Speculations coming soon

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09 Dec 2017 00:59
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