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karma portal traveller
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Ko9 wrote:
I think making a sub-forum is very... It wouldn't work I think. Not that I have any experience when it comes to website building.


I confirmed with Vortex that it will 100% work. Forums can be created inside forums and individual threads can exist next to subforums as well.

Ko9 wrote:
I like the new Covert Front idea (arrogant obviously) but I think, other Pastel Games creators deserve separate... parts. I think games and threats related to let's say Palka's work should get a section on the forum...Maybe also a place for Brian's and Thumpmonks works could be nice to.


I didn't push this because I don't think there's enough discussion to warrant them having their own sub-subforum, if that's what you mean by "parts". The community can decide that, but I wouldn't be surprised if nothing is pursued. If you're concerned with providing links to a bunch of people from a defunct website's social media, then that could be included in a stickied general information thread or something that could be created.

Also, I'm not advocating that the CF Voidscan thread should be deleted. I just want it renamed and possibly moved. I originally wondered why the thread existed because I didn't think there was a Covert Front 5 in the works to warrant a suggestions thread for it. Are there future CF works coming out?. If there is, then it should stay there. But if there isn't and it's just a thread of media that's related to Covert Front and it's aesthetic and such, then I would say it should be moved to GenDis under "Pastel Topics".

I also retracted part of my reasoning from that response I gave you in that thread because I don't stand by it anymore after getting a better sense of what threads exist in the subforum.

Anteroinen wrote:
These are not bad ideas organization-wise. I mean, I'll probably have to re-Wayback everything, but whatever, right? That's my thing and I enjoy it.


no comment :)

Anteroinen wrote:
You want a subsubforum for games of Mateusz that don't fit in other games? Such as? Like, do you mean fan-games and stuff like Submachine fanfiction and stuff?


If I understand you correctly, that's not what I'm saying. If you can point to where you thought I said that I can see if it needs rewording.

For "other games and comics" I want there to be a sub-sub for Covert Front and one for 10 Gnomes. All of the other MS/Pastel game threads can exist as single threads along with those two sub-subs. But the overall stipulation I define for threads existing in this subforum is that they have to be MS/Pastel properties. Fan games/unrelated games to MS/Pastel should be classified as creative work like you said or grouped into another subforum in GenDis.

Anteroinen wrote:
I will say though, that merging things into the off-topic thread is fundamentally stupid idea. There's absolutely no point in creating an unreadable unholy amalgam of a dozen unrelated threads mixed with one another with no rhyme or reason. The only thing that achieves is making BOTH the off-topic thread and the other threads harder to use.


Responding as I did in Discord earlier, the point is to limit the amount of unruly uncategorized threads in GenDis. It also sets a precedent that people should think about whether when they're creating a new thread if it really should be in a new thread or not. Because I've gone through so many years of stuff, I've found a lot of threads which I think were created without much thought as to the actual conversation quality that could go into them. This is the solution I'm offering to fulfill that point of having things clean. It's an alternative to just simply deleting them, which I also have no problem taking that side either.

The resulting offtopic thread would be cross-topicked severely, yes, but it's not 100% unreadable because the subject lines from the original threads are retained (e.g. "Re: [topic title]") when you merge threads. So there is a way to sort these topics out in the resulting offtopic thread. Now granted, I'm pretty sure no one bothers to look at the subject line; after all I've only seen proof that one person acknowledges its existence (Sundex in his theory thread)

And I don't think it would be as much of a "harder to use" than it is a "harder to read". But again, there's a search function where you can isolate posts in a specific thread by title (again, preserved during the combination process).


21 Oct 2018 23:35
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subnet traveller
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When it came to sub forums I was confused, I did not yet watch the video and got the terms mixed, I didn't, mean it on a website building way of working, just... I thought it was that it was an totaly separate forum. Maybe... I still think a music sub-forum would work, but I agree with you that the community has to decide so. Okay, when it comes to the Covert Front void scan (ripoff) where do you want it to be moved to? I would prefer it on this site. I also personally, think that aesthetics pictures can be posted, without... per se being for the maker of it... I maybe should have given it a smaller intro... Covert Front 5 will not be made and I do not want it to be made, I, personally would love to see another series next to it, similar to 10 Gnomes month and year projects. I think there is an very old post on the archive from Skutnik's website, that talks about it. Not confirming anything but just saying we will see. I think the earlier boomerang effect, might also be something that became the case after Mateusz was done with Submachine 10. It also might be, something that is a reaction to the wallpaper like size of the Game, but this is off topic. When it comes to your different reasoning, I have not really an answer. More than an okay, I guess. @Ant, is it possible to work on a list of web archive links? Like you did it at a few post back on M.A.T? When it comes to other games and comics, I think, an being constructive, and just looking from my side it's best to make the basis for Mateusz's work, base the comics and games. And then a sub forum for other pastel games people, which is divide in the persons who made other Pastel Games (and even comics!) and then specific which ones... A 3 layer system... I hope I explained it right, I also have no experience. I am still thinking, to edit some of my older posts, my grammar was horrible. It still is to be honest.


22 Oct 2018 13:01
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Apocryphactor wrote:
Anteroinen wrote:
You want a subsubforum for games of Mateusz that don't fit in other games? Such as? Like, do you mean fan-games and stuff like Submachine fanfiction and stuff?


If I understand you correctly, that's not what I'm saying. If you can point to where you thought I said that I can see if it needs rewording.


I was referring to this bullet under the general discussion:

Appy wrote:
2. Create a sub-subforum for Pastel topics. These are threads that focus on the games and creations of MS and Pastel games but don't necessarily fit into the Sub/DMT/other games subforums. I also think the Wiki threads should go here.


Apoc wrote:
The resulting offtopic thread would be cross-topicked severely, yes, but it's not 100% unreadable because the subject lines from the original threads are retained (e.g. "Re: [topic title]") when you merge threads. So there is a way to sort these topics out in the resulting offtopic thread. Now granted, I'm pretty sure no one bothers to look at the subject line; after all I've only seen proof that one person acknowledges its existence (Sundex in his theory thread)

And I don't think it would be as much of a "harder to use" than it is a "harder to read". But again, there's a search function where you can isolate posts in a specific thread by title (again, preserved during the combination process).


The mere existence of an obscure search feature does not really alter my point at all. I can't for the life of me understand why you think that's a legitimate point to make. It is not like they can be edited on a whim or something, making your point invali- OH WAIT.

Even allowing for the fact they are somewhat useful in this regard, the average reader or user won't know (how) to do that, and no one is going to be able to do that in a way that anticipates the inclusion of this extra material. We don't even need to bother stating out loud how awkward finding the topic titles again from within the off-topic thread itself would be. To use an analogy, it would be like plastering pages of a book you want to get rid of in the middle of your favourite book in the name of archiving. Sure, you can separate the two books by context, but that doesn't stop the idea from being dumb.

If you're going to archive something you should be archiving the original format and context as much as possible. Off-topic is a thread with a long tradition and a particular purpose. It is not a dumping-ground for the forum's goddamn waste. If you're going to be making a Frankenstein's monster, then create a "Dumpster Thread" where you put all of the threads you hate, but don't ruin a popular thread with it.

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22 Oct 2018 15:34
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I am for a Dumpster Thread. So many ideas to put into it.


22 Oct 2018 15:48
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karma portal traveller
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Anteroinen wrote:
I was referring to this bullet under the general discussion:

Appy wrote:
2. Create a sub-subforum for Pastel topics. These are threads that focus on the games and creations of MS and Pastel games but don't necessarily fit into the Sub/DMT/other games subforums. I also think the Wiki threads should go here.


If you take a look at the part of the Excel Doc that's labeled "Pastel Topics" can you get a general sense for what I'm going for? I've listed them all out there. (Also, all the stuff above the first black line is in GenDis, apologies if that's confusing)

Okay, I had no idea that the offtopic thread was apparently so special to some forum members. I would not have thought that a thread dedicated to irrelevant discussion would be that important, but if it is, so be it. I also again want to make clear that while I'm trying to discuss reasons for the solutions I've come up with, I don't mean to defend them to the death or anything. They're just suggestions I'm trying to flush out. And the general mindset I have is I don't want small irrelevant discussions to permeate GenDis like they have been for several years. So it's really about moving away from that than it is moving into a certain solution.

I would support a dumpster thread, as long as we're okay with having that to basically tell people "these contributions you made are going in a dumpster pile later". (Which I have no problem with). But again, if we're viewing these threads as waste then maybe they should just be deleted.

@Ko9 since you've cleared up that there are no concrete plans for CF5 being made, I would like to move it to the "Pastel Topics" sub-subforum underneath General Discussion. Also consider breaking up your posts into paragraphs instead of dots between random thoughts so we're not just staring at a wall of text.

Anyone on the forum who wants to have a voice in this, please make it heard! This is not going to go through on the decisions of three people. There are many parts to this that also have not been discussed at all yet :P


22 Oct 2018 16:43
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Yeah that move seems all right. I like staring at walls of text tho... IthinkImightjustskipthespacebaringeneral. Well, about Covert Front 11, it is possible. It was an patreon award. And there are still thoughts of updating the series in game maker. But to be honest, I think that will just be an graphical upgrade. That is why I divided the ideas list in Sub-sections.
I think waiting, until forum members post is key anyway, so I don't really mind the waiting for this, because it will be an huuuuugeee update.
Edit: I was still thinking that, the treat was supposed to move to a blog like you told. But now I understand... again.


22 Oct 2018 17:10
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the Architect's apprentice
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For what it's worth let me just bump in here and say I support this motion, and if anything I'd be in favor of deleting the completely useless threads because I like seeing trash burn

I agree with Anteroinen that just merging excess threads with offtopic would just create disorder (and we're trying to clean the forum up here, not add a different type of mess). If we're talking about potential new members going through old conversations 1) I agree that most of them either wouldn't be aware of, or wouldn't know how to use the search function, 2) I highly doubt anyone would actually take the time to go through every single page of discussions that have happened on this forum.
I see the main point of this project as cleaning up the forum so it's easier to navigate and find relevant threads.

A "dumpster thread", likewise, would just still be clutter that doesn't serve any real purpose.


22 Oct 2018 19:37
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karma portal traveller
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Yeah, after more discussion I think that bad threads should just be deleted, no trash thread required.


22 Oct 2018 19:56
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I kept silence because I believe you would make forum organization good.

Changes seem very good.

Only things I always wanted to be separated from general Theories and Suggestions and General Discussion (or be kept in their own subfolders) - wiki threads, projects (discussions, stories, artwork, games,etc.) that are directly related to Mateusz's work, and personal projects.

Oh, and what threads you would consider as Dumpster? Oo What thread should contain so he can be considered as trash for eternal deletion?
I believe no single byte of informations should be deleted from forum if it is not very personal request from user or group of users. It's history.

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Last edited by Sublevel 109 on 23 Oct 2018 13:32, edited 2 times in total.



23 Oct 2018 13:17
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Sublevel 108 wrote:
Changes seem very good.

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23 Oct 2018 13:24
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